Guestion for Americans

[civilwarbuff17]

1. @ Southerners.) Do you think that Northerners are still writing the History of the Civil War?

2. @ Northerners) Or, are the Southereners now the authors?

3. @ both) And, do you think its good for Souther-ners and Northerners to tear each other apart about a conflict that ended 150 years ago?

4. @all) And, what do you think can be done to put the past to rest?

I'm hoping to get some peace between the two sides with this topic, because there is very fierce debating over this long ended war on this site. So please, bear with me.

[caster89]

it's a fact that history is written by the winners, so i believe that the north twisted, and/or changed some facts that may have caused some ppl to be sympathetic the confederate cause. as for debate to this day, ppl in the south call northeners yanks (or yuppies in some cases), and ppl in the north call us rednecks. so some ppl on both sides have a dislike of each other, be it cause' of their ancestry, or they were raised that way, i think they'll still disagree for decades ta come

[civilwarbuff17]

BTW there was only ONE Confederate vice-president. (Alexander Stephens)

Sorry, I had a brain fart on his name.

Since you are pretending to be conciliatory

At least I'm trying. I don't see anyone else trying going this far to be conciliatory.

[charge_of_glory]

Now, I don't know the context of most of those quotes. But the on about if he could, he wouldn't free any slaves, you took out of context.

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause."

That's what the full quote is, and in it he makes it clear that he'll do what he needs to. You made it seem like he wanted to preserve slavery, which wasn't what he actually said.

As for the one about thinking whites should be superior, the end of the quote, which you left out, he says, "I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the ***** should be denied everything." He may have wanted white supremacy, but he didn't think African Americans should've been treated so unfairly either.

Here are quotes that show the other side of Lincoln, the one you like to supress.

"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."

"You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted."

If you're going to portray Lincoln as such an evil person, at least show both sides of him. Sure, by today's standards he wasn't the greatest person in the world, but we can't forget that things were different back then. White supremacy wasn't seen as a horrible thing to believe in. When looked at from the right context, Lincoln wasn't as horrible as you may think. Of course, he wasn't perfect either and I'm sure he made mistakes and didn't always have the best intentions, but no one does, in the past or the present.

[civilwarbuff17]

No he wasn't. But, then again, we all got our bad sides and good sides.

[charge_of_glory]

Like I said, he was for white supremacy, like almost everyone else. But that doesn't mean he thought they should be slaves. I have yet to see a quote from him that states such a thing. There's a difference between being against someone, and wanting them to be tortured.

Also, we can't forget that some things he said years before the Civil War. His view could've, and I think did, change over time. That happened to many people. They thought of African Americans as inferior until they were shown otherwise. Even the nicest and best person in the world can do or think something that isn't right, b/c they don't know otherwise. Lincoln wasn't the only person who believed in white sumpremacy. Most people did back then. But that doesn't matter. What matters is that those people changed and became more open and kind to other people.

The quotes you gave seemed as though they're from his debates with Douglas. That took place in the 1850's, before he became more concerned with slavery and all that jazz. We need to look at the whole picture, not just the beginning, b/c it doesn't tell the whole story.

[charge_of_glory]

Neither you nor I can ever truly know what he thought, and what his true intentions were. I simply was trying to point out the fact that you're leaving out the other side to the story of Lincoln. Leaving out parts of his quotes to make him seem completely evil just isn't right. I don't care if you find him to be a horrible man, because that's your opinion. But at least tell the whole story if you're going to show people what you think about him.

He probably didn't have an epiphany, but gradually over time became more aware of the issue and more focused on it. Sure, it wasn't his main or only goal, but that doesn't mean he was evil.

As for your latest quote, assuming that's the entire thing, he NEVER said they should be enslaved. No where have I ever seen a quote of his saying such a thing. I've said it before,and I'll say it again, he may have believed in white supremacy, but so did almost everyone else. He is seen as "the Great Emancipator" because that's what he is, though I wouldn't be so quick to say "Great". He didn't believe in the idea of slavery, as far as I know, and he did emancipate Southern slaves.

I do face the fact that he believed in white supremacy. I know he wasn't what many people see him as. But I also don't think he was as evil as you portray him. But again, I'm not worried about what you believe, just how you present your ideas.

[charge_of_glory]

I've been wondering for quite some time as to what exactly a "Neo-Puritan" is. Can you explain it a bit further please? Thanks!

[civilwarbuff17]

I hate Hillary Clinton. Sorry if anyone does, not trying to hurt what they believe in her, but she was already in office once. I mean, women are now the driving force behind the president, especially with Clinton it seems.

[charge_of_glory]

Now, by yankee you don't mean someone who's just from the North, right? I'm just trying to clear this all up b/c it can be a bit confusing lol.

[charge_of_glory]

Lol, just making sure. Thanks for the clarification.

[civilwarbuff17]

Where would u like us CW Buff? Barefoot and pregnant scrubbing the kitchen floor?

Hey possum, I wasn't attacking anyone. I was just saying I don't like Hillary. I'm not saying women do bad jobs, I'm just saying that that one woman I don't want president. So, please, don't think I'm a sexist pig or something.