Perspective from Southerner

[Scott_002002]

I personally feel like the south would of won the war had they not been at such a great disadvantage. 1st in the south there were only 9 million which 3 million were slaves and would not fight, then the north there were 25 million, which nearly outnumbered the south almost 4 to 1. Second, the north had almost all weaponry factories and industrial factories. to which they had many more guns, cannons, and ammunition. Third, the north had way more money than the south and was so much better equipped than the south as far as food shelter and care for the wounded. COnsidering all of this the south did put up one **** of a fight and nearly won the war! I feel as though picketts charge damaged thier spirit though, I sometimes wonder if maybe lee decided he didnt want the south to win? he gambled so much at gettysburg.

[HellDisturber]

First i have to say i'm from Belgium so i might not be personally connected with the war but i'm interested in it. And i believe there was no way the South would have won that war. Lee knew that because all the reasons you said before.

Offcourse if the South and the North would be ecually as strong i think they would have won. They wanted to be free and had the ambition while alot of Northrens didn't really support the war. But then again would that be a victory? because then they wouldn't be able to trade with the Northren states. And probably later intire Europe would refuse to trade with the South because they still had slavary.

[Scott_002002]

I get the gist of what you are saying here Scott and I it is accurate in a general way but you also have some misconceptions.

1st the north did not have “way more money than” the South. On a per capita basis the South was BY FAR the wealthiest part of the Nation. For example the per capita personal worth, all races included, of Alabama was almost 2 and one half times that of Massachusetts! This is what the war was all about i.e. a huge transfer of wealth from South to north that continues in some ways even today!

2nd Why do you believe that slaves “would not fight”? Slaves as well as free blacks did most certainly fight for the Confederacy despite the fact that the Confederate government did everything they could to keep blacks out of combat until March of 1865. (Slaves fought in every American war before the WBTS too) The actual numbers who made it into combat are disputed but I do not think anyone disputes the fact that some fought and fought on their own accord.

History is replete with examples of slaves fighting for their country and/or their freedom both against their masters and by their master’s sides. Slaves fought beside their masters when the Cubans were fighting for independence from Spain in the 1880’s.

Pat Cleburne in his proposal to free the slaves of the South and arm them to fight for the Confederacy wrote:


“Will the slaves fight? The helots of Sparta stood their masters good stead in battle. In the great sea fight of Lepanto where the Christians checked forever the spread of Mohammedanism over Europe, the galley slaves of portions of the fleet were promised freedom, and called on to fight at a critical moment of the battle. They fought well, and civilization owes much to those brave galley slaves. The ***** slaves of Saint Domingo, fighting for freedom, defeated their white masters and the French troops sent against them. The ***** slaves of Jamaica revolted, and under the name of Maroons held the mountains against their masters for 150 years; and the experience of this war has been so far that half-trained negroes have fought as bravely as many other half-trained Yankees. If, contrary to the training of a lifetime, they can be made to face and fight bravely against their former masters, how much more probable is it that with the allurement of a higher reward, and led by those masters, they would submit to discipline and face dangers”.


http://www.scvcamp469-nbf.com/theblackconfederatesoldier.htm


Yes but most of the souths wealth came from cotton, in the north steel was what was the money maker and which they had more steel to make weapons and ammunition with. The south didnt have near as many steel and powder factories.

2nd I belive in general MOST slaves would not fight for the south , not enough to make a NOTICEABLE difference anyway if you want to be precise.

Whats your take on picketts charge? I believe it damaged the souths spirit, although It didnt break the spirit since the war raged on for two more years.
I believe Lee used terrible strategy and bieng such a great general, I wonder why he was so reckless as gettysburg? even while longstreet was dis-agreeing with every attack made at gettysburg? and also jeb stuart was missing and he wasnt even SURE of the enemy's strenth. heart wrenching to see the movie gettysburg.

[Scott_002002]

“I belive in general MOST slaves would not fight for the south”


Why not?

Apparently Pat Cleburne and Bobby Lee didn’t agree. Neither did the CS congress which finally passed legislation to enlist blacks in March of 1865.

Remember, for nearly the first two years of the war even Lincoln himself did not even try to pretend that the north was fighting to free the slaves!

Most slaves and even most of their parents and grandparents were born into slavery. It was the only life they had ever known. Most of them were born in the South too. They were just as much Southerners as their “white folks” were. The South was their country too! You can not compare the attitude of Southern blacks in 1861 to the attitude of most modern African Americans that have been exposed to 140 years of politically correct propaganda in the public schools and from the media.

Slaves and free blacks fought in the Revolution and the war of 1812. Black people slave or not are just as capable of patriotism as any other race of people. Blacks fought for the US in every war from 1865 up through Vietnam, in some cases in even greater proportionate numbers than whites, even though they still did not enjoy the same rights as whites. Why should the WBTS have been any different?

Don’t think Pickets charge was as demoralizing to the South in general as that and the loss of the Vicksburg Campaign had more material effect on the Confederacy as a whole.

Lee saw a chance to end the war at Gettysburg. Pickets’ charge was a gamble and Lee knew it. But I do not believe it was an unreasonable gamble. It came very close to succeeding. The federal line was actually broken and a part of it routed. But when federal reserves came up there were no CS reserves to counter them. Lee was counting on 15,000 troops to make the assault. In the end only about 12,000 actually participated. Had that extra 3000 been where Lee expected who knows?




Well you sir seem to know everything don't you? So I am going to give you a little challange. Tell me this. Where was the confederacy formed? what state? what town? and where exactly?

Answer me this friend and I will definately compliment you on your great knowledge of the civil war.

__________________________________________________ ___
"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we would grow too fond of it" Quote, General Robert E Lee at Fredericksburg.

[mizzoureb]

Scott and O'Bruadair:

There are THREE good books on the persepctive of Southerners you need to check out:

1. BLACK CONFEDERATES AND AFRO-YANKEES IN CIVIL WAR
VIRGINIA by Ervin L. Jordan, Jr.

2. THE SOUTH WAS RIGHT by James Ronald and Walter
Donald Kennedy.

3. THE CONSTITUTIONAL HISTORY OF SECESSION by John
Remington Graham.

[Scott_002002]

Hey thanks for the tip! very interesting! I have always been interested in the civil war.

[Scott_002002]

To O'Bruadair,

In case you didnt see this. Ill post it again.

Well you sir seem to know everything don't you? So I am going to give you a little challange. Tell me this. Where was the confederacy formed? what state? what town? and where exactly?

Answer me this friend and I will definately compliment you on your great knowledge of the civil war.


Ill even give you a hint, you probably cant find it on the internet.
__________________________________________________ ___
"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we would grow too fond of it" Quote, General Robert E Lee at Fredericksburg.

[Scott_002002]

Well Since O-bruidar doesnt accept the challenge I guess I WILL just tell every one. The confederacy was formed at the BURK STARK MANSION of ABBEVILLE,SC (My Hometown). I have been on a tour of the mansion and I have been in the very room the confederacy was formed. It's a very big mansion and almost takes you back in time. I dont know why but I havent ever seen any info about it on the web? and that's where it all began?

[VTYank09]

Everyone makes some good points here. On the second day of Gettysburg Lee attacked the Union flanks. I think on that third day, he felt that Meade would reinforce his flanks, making him weak in the center. Lee felt the Union center was weak and would break, and the Confederates actually did break through the lines but like O.B. said, the Union brought up reserves and the South had none.

Don't forget the South had some advantages too. They were defending their homes, fighting to protect their families and their way of life. They only had to fight a defensive war. They knew the ground better, fighting on their own soil. They had local support from the people. They had superior commanders. The North had to rely on long lines of communication and supply. The South also felt that they would receive aid from Great Britain and France. And one final thing, the commitment of the white population of the South to the war was clear and firm, but in the North however, opinion was more divided and support for it was shaky.

Both sides had their advantages and disadvantages, yes maybe the North had more MATERIAL advantages, but it was definitely not impossible for the South to win this war, in fact they could have and almost did!

[Scott_002002]

VTYank09,

Well I see you have a different opinion than me, and I am guessing you are a yankee from your name. Well while your giving your opinion, I'd like your opinion on the entire war, I have a hard time seeing things from the "northern" perspective even though yes I have tried to. In fact I believe people from the south & north have a entirely different way of thinking. And I do believe THAT is part of why there WAS a war.

[VTYank09]

O.B. - good website, I really enjoyed reading that article. Being from the North, I think the biggest problem some of us have, is when people say "yankees" we usually think you are talking about everyone from the North and this is not so, just like the article says. I agree with alot of what you have said.

Scott - haha no I'm not a yankee really. I'm from PA, but go to school in Virginia, and as much as I hate to say it, (j/k I'm proud of my home) I wanted my username to reflect where I'm from and "Yank" was the only thing I could come up with that people would recognize. I guess it was the wrong choice haha. I could not agree with you more when you stated that part of the reason for the war was the differences between the two regions of the country, and even though we like to say we're all Americans, we are different. That's not a bad thing at all, it just is what it is. It is a shame that history is written by the victors, I hate it. It's important to keep an open mind and explore the other side.

My opinion on the entire war, wow, I'm not quite sure how to answer that but I'll do my best. I don't agree with secession, but there was nothing in the Constitution, it was not illegal, so the South had a right to I suppose. Confederate generals were far superior I don't question that, but the Union I think had greater success in the Western Theatre than in the East. Lee, brilliant commander, brilliant soldier and strategist...I can't say enough about the man. Definitely the most beloved general in American history. What he did with that army was amazing; he liked to take risks sometimes which is necessary. He knew the South could not fight a long war because they just didn't have the resources to keep up and I agree with him there. After Gettysburg, Vicksburg, and when Grant took command, that's when things changed. The South did not receive foreign aid and Grant was relentless. He just kept coming after Lee and would not stop. Direct frontal assaults, heavy casualties, he just kept pushing. Finally it was too much and Lee was surrounded. I feel like the defeat of the Southern Army didn't necessarily have to be the end of the Confederacy, but it pretty much was. I feel like the South could have won, but time and luck just weren't on their side. Let me know if this answers your question or if I should clarify anything, time isn't on my side right now haha. Thanks!

[Scott_002002]

I agree with you. General Lee was a very good commander and he should is a legend. It seems like southerners are more interested in the war than the north but I'm not sure. It's just many people from the south i believe still feel the same way as they did back then.[/url]

[VTYank09]

I agree with you on many points cwalenta999. Hindsight is 20/20: it is very easy to say "what if, what if, what if..." To add to your evaluation of Gettysburg on the third day, Lee also planned an attack on the Union right at Culp's Hill and also planned a cavalry attack by Jeb Stuart in the rear of the Union center, thus trapping the Union army and forcing them into a state of confusion. All of your "what ifs" for this battle have, no doubt, been asked by many people for years and we will never truly know.

I am not sure, however, what you mean when you say the South had the option to either go North or West. Do you mean Lee's Army of Northern Virginia? If so, I don't believe that that was the case at all. One of the objectives of the Union army was always to capture Richmond. Lee never even would have considered going west, leaving Richmond completely unprotected and open to easy occupation. The capture of the Confederate capital would have forced the Confederate government to flee and could have been detrimental to the South. If you mean something different from what I have presented, please clarify.

Best,
VTYank09

[VTYank09]

cwalenta999,

Thank you for clarifying what you were saying. I completely understand now and after pulling out one of the civil war books from my shelf, I ran across the same thing you were talking about: whether to turn the attention to the West or North. To quote Lee from my source (An American Illiad by Charles P. Roland) he says, "It becomes a question between Virginia and Mississippi." While some men in the Confederacy (Sec of War Seddon and Longstreet) favored sending troops to help Tennessee and Mississippi, Lee oppposed this saying the distance was too great and the troops would not arrive in time to make a relevant impact. Also, detaching troops to the West would weaken the Army of Northern Virginia, possibly forcing it to become less of a strategic threat.

Moving North was the best option. It might relieve Federal pressure in the West by forcing the Union to recall troops from that area to help put down Lee's raid into the North. I use the word raid because that is what Lee's movement was. It was not an invasion by definition because Lee did not intend to stay in the North forever and occupy the territory, live off the land etc. Some of his goals consisted of drawing the Union army out of Virginia and into the open where it could be destroyed. He also wanted to relieve the pressure in the West and he hoped his movement into the North would break the Northern people's will to fight, encouraging the northern peace party to sign an armistice and end the war.

Another point to be noted here is that Lincoln's strategy became clear: Lee's army, not Richmond, was the objective of the Army of the Potomac. Hooker wanted to take advantage of the fact that the Confederates were no longer in his front, and proposed a march on Richmond. Lincoln felt that with Lee's march to the North underway, and his lines spread miles apart, that he had to be weak somewhere and urged Hooker to strike. Hooker offered his resignation, persuaded that it would be turned down. He was horribly mistaken, Lincoln replaced him with George Meade, and so began the great Gettysburg campaign.

[AmericanKiltedYaksman]

The south would have won the war if grant and sherman wouldnt have taken over.

lee wasnt really that great but maclellan made him look good. in the few battles maclellan won he could have one the war but hesitated

and burnside made him look good too. Lee made a stuiped mistake at chancelersvill by dividing his forces 3 time but burnside wouldnt take advantage.

Grant and sherman would have wiped the south if they would have taken over earlyer